Talk:Union

I would like to respectfully start this discussion to talk about which information is factual and correct, not "misunderstandings, bad information, and speculation".

--GTA6v1 (talk) 08:12, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * 1) Name: Chapter 271, page 4 uses the word "Union". Page 6 uses the word "Devil Union".
 * 2) Abilities: Page 1 says it can "draw out all of" the devil power. Page 6 says it can add characteristics of the devil to the user's magic.
 * 3) Compatibility: Page 4 says "In Devil-Binding Contracts, the initiative belongs entirely to the one giving the orders. In other words, to the human. That's why I can use Union so easily." -> A Devil-Binding Contract makes it easier to use Union.

From the onset, it is flawed because "union" is a general term. It's like the rune situation: People wanted to make articles about the Heart Kingdom's magic technique but tried to name it "rune" even though runes are used in other instances unrelated to Mana Method. Anything built off that flawed use will be speculative and misleading. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 14:08, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

But this is a defined term, with kanji accompanied by ruby text, isn't it? Not just some words that characters spill out casually.--GTA6v1 (talk) 08:00, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

No, "union" and "Unite" are different. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 12:47, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Are they both not in Japanese?--GTA6v1 (talk) 04:04, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

That is for "Unite" but not for "union". Dragonus Nesha (talk) 04:57, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

What does that mean? Doesn't the official English translation translate to "Devil Union" right in the first page of chapter 271?--GTA6v1 (talk) 08:23, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

It means they're separate terms. The official translation has no bearing on the Japanese text. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 13:25, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

We are specifically discussing the Japanese term/concept introduced in chapter 271, whose English translation is either "Unite" or "Union" or  "Devil Union", right? Is there another Japanese term of "Union" in that chapter that is not ? Or you are suggesting that I should name this page " Unite " instead?--GTA6v1 (talk) 16:23, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Again, they're separate terms. And no, you shouldn't create an article for it under any name. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 17:07, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Because? In this discussion, your objection has been only about "It's Unite, not Union, the English translation is wrong" and nothing else. Fine, let's rename every "Union" word into "Unite", and problem is solved, isn't it?--GTA6v1 (talk) 01:19, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

No, I already addressed why in my first response on this Talk Page. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 03:40, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Your first response was "From the onset, it is flawed because "union" is a general term.[...]Anything built off that flawed use will be speculative and misleading." It is all about "union". And I don't even know why you keep insisting on that. "union" is a general word. "Union" (with a capital U) is a specific term. It's synonymous and interchangeable with "Unite" and "Demon Union". Obviously "union" cannot have an article, but "Union/Unite/Demon Union" clearly has article-worthy content.--GTA6v1 (talk) 04:34, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

If it was simply a naming issue, then I would've renamed the page, but your confusion of terms is at the heart of all the problems with the article. That's not entirely your fault since the English translation isn't consistent with them. At this point, wait for the manga to shed more light on the situation. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 05:07, 14 November 2020 (UTC)